Regarding Electrical Service in Greenwater

[Webmaster]

As a result of a power outage a few days ago, our place suffered some damaged equipment, even though it was on a power strip, and also had several breakers trip and some lights blown. I spoke with other members of the community last Saturday and nearly everyone experienced some kind damage. I saw the sign below by the mailboxes and wanted to encourage others to contact these folks as well as PSE.

http://explore-greenwater.com/pix/2-08PowerOutage.jpg

[engerski]

I've certainly noticed more and longer power outages. The last one tripped one of my circuit breakers, was very hard to turn back on.
Luckily I had unplugged the TV and PC. I've learned my lesson. My daughter lost her Sony TV and microwave this time. Last year I lost my satellite receiver/coffeemaker and power drills.
Let's all call...:mad:

[Jan Kobak]

Thank-you for putting a photo of my sign on this site. I wanted to post something here but didn't have the time. Also, just wanted to add that you can file a claim for damages directly with PSE- not that they will pay, but they were forced to quite a few years when this occurred once before. The drawback was that you had to have receipts for everything and it had to be a newer item. As everything I had was 40+ years old, I couldn't file.The good news though,I didn't lose much and still have the same stuff, just much older,now.

[Webmaster]

Hi Jan & Liz. Thanks Jan for taking the time to post the information you did!

Okay,

I was given the number of 1-253-395-6824 from one of our neighbors. This is PSE claims. I spoke with a nice woman named Nicole. I described the problem related to the major outage in the area and told her of the items that were damaged, as well as the huge number of circuit breakers that were tripped at my place. She said that she’ll open a claim and that others, higher in the company will be getting back to me.

She encouraged all that were affected to call and file a claim. She noted that this upcoming weekend is a 3 day holiday due to presidents day. And that due to that she’d be out for the holiday, and the weekend. She asked that anyone leave a message, and noted that their phone system is a little out of date, so if the her mail box filled, to please call back next week.

I asked about the core problem causing this and she said that she didn’t have a direct answer but she said it was a very rare kind of event and is being “thoroughly investigated.”

I still have to call the Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission. I hope to do so later today and will report after.

[djt]

We checked checked our place at the ranch....3 breakers blown. Stove not working, microwave not working, ceiling fan fried and unable to reset one of the breakers without an arc in the breaker box.....I have left a voicemail with Nicole at PSE to set up a claim. Please keep posting on your individual progress or lack there of with claims.

Thanks

[Jan Kobak]

The Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission informed me that when a distribution line and a transmission line come across each other it can result in a huge power surge. When the outage happened, I was looking out my windows and although it was dark out,the whole sky appeared lit up with an eerie blue color. I expected to hear thunder, it was so strange.This happened 3 times. Apparently it occurred in the area where the power lines cross from the Ranch to the Villages. I'm still waiting for my response from PSE via the Commission as to why it took PSE 9 hours longer to restore power to the Villages than to other areas and also why PSE stated to my neighbor that we indeed did have power,when we surely did not! The Commission also stated that beginning Feb.15th PSE is removing problem trees in a problem area(location unknown)and that the work would be complete in a weeks time.

[Webmaster]

I called the utilities and transposition commission. Spoke with a very helpful woman named Nancy.

She largely repeated comments made above. She didn’t have details of how much of the roughly 20+ miles between Enumclaw and Greenwater area may be the subject of tree trimming. She said that in addition to this special trimming session, there are 3 and 6 year cycles that PSE follows for clearing the area around the power lines.

I asked if PSE offered a service to clear trees on private properties by request. She said she didn’t know but would find out and get back to me.

I asked about the possibility of PSE burring power lines. She said she didn’t have an answer but that a lot of decisions get back to cost, as the customer’s would have to absorb the costs related to this kind of project.

It is very important that we contact the Utilities and Transportation Commission. Ultimately, their power to influence PSE is determined by the number of people who contact them. If we can get half of the people in Greenwater to call, we'll will get far better results than if only a few call. So talk with your neighbors and ask them to call! If they need information, ask them to see this web site

[Webmaster]

I did some research on how to reduce the impact of the line surges that occur during and after power outages. There are 3 key items that should be used to protect against damage due to these events.

One is called an Uninterruptible Power Supply, another is called a Voltage Regulator, and the third is a Generator.

Voltage regulators are designed to limit the peak power that will get to your electrical or electronic equipment. Here are examples (http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67) of 2 suitable voltage regulators.

Voltage regulators are not very expensive. You will greatly benefit yourself by having one of these each for your entertainment center, computer equipment, or any group of electronics. Make sure to get a voltage regulator that is rated for the draw of equipment you’re going to connect to it.

If you have a computer, a satellite dish, or any electronics that you want to keep running for a while even with the main power off, look into a device called an uninterruptible power supply. These are battery backed power systems that trigger automatically in the event of a power outage or hiccup, are intended to provide time to shut down a component after the main electricity has failed. Some of them are designed to not only automatically shut down computers, but can power them back up after the AC power has been restored.

A third item, is, of course a generator. If you use a generator, be aware that some generators put out a kind of electrical current that can damage electronics. Check with the vendor of the generator to find out if the risk is there, and if it is, look into using a voltage regulator in addition to the generator. There is a recent article on generators posted here (http://explore-greenwater.com/community/showthread.php?t=497 on the topic of generators.)

[jbp]

We lost 5 surge protectors (they did their job), a fax machine, a microwave
and an electronic thermostat that blew off the wall !
Jim

[djt]

Based on the rhetoric I've received both verbally and in writing from PSE, don't expect them to step up to the plate on the damage.

If we are lucky enough that they decide that the damage was their fault, then they will only pay for repairs or replacement up to the fair market value of the appliances. So here I am with a ruined range and built in Microwave w/ exhaust fan that is 10 years old chronologically. Being a vacation cabin it get used perhaps 10-15% of the time....I can guess what they'll calculate the depreciated value as. It'll be impossible to find used appliances in similar condition. So like it or not it's going to cost me some money to be made whole again....

This stinks....hmmmm....what's that number for utiliities and transportation commitee

[Webmaster]

I received a letter and a claim from PSE. They wrote about what DJT did (above) and provided a form for me to fill out.

FWIW a customer of mine in Seattle has suffered recurrent damage in about the past 12 months due to black outs and brown outs. The company is asking City Light to investigate. They (City Light) immediately started a song and dance and sought to implicate everything except themselves – the building management, the age of the power lines, local updates to infrastructure and so on. But they agreed to monitor the power reaching the meter to see if any problems can be revealed over time. I guess the electric supply vendor has a limited range of responsibility.

In the case where damage is extensive it might be worth contacting a lawyer or checking with your insurance supplier. Not that I know anything about the law but it seems when there is a power spike that does this kind of damage to many houses in a community, that strongly suggests that the failure far exceeded the built in design of the household breaker system. Anyone know the law on this or where to find it?

[Webmaster]

I received a call from Nancy Paulson in Consumer Affairs of the Public Utilities Commission re Puget Sound Energy. She said that PSE just finished a “massive” tree trimming and cutting effort to reduce risk in the area. She reported that they have been trimming and cutting trees which pose a danger to power and distribution lines starting 2-15 and continuing for about a week. She added that there are also regular trimming schedules for power or distribution lines. These are approximately every 3 to 6 years. There is a master complaint on file with them regarding what can be done to make the system more reliable. Roger C (I couldn’t make out his last name) is keeping all evidence on a master record.

She evidently forgot the question I had about if PSE or anyone else will trim trees which property owners suspect to pose a risk to power lines. So I’ll contact them again…

Anyone else receive feedback from them or PSE?

[Jan Kobak]

I heard from PSE,via Utilities and Transportation Commission, that when an outage occurs and is a result of widespread damage, the field crew cannot input info into the reporting system quickly enough. Hence, they will say all areas are up and running, and that may not be the case. Wish I could use these kind of excuses and get away with stuff!
In any case they issued a 50.00$ credit to me and one other party in the Crystal Village area- for input in ways to improve service! I had asked for a credit due to a delay in getting power restored when all other areas were back on by 9 hours and the call center reported my power as back on, when it wasn't. Might not hurt to ask for some kind of credit.
I was lucky this time and received no damage. I also took pains to find surge protectors that gave you protection from 3 surges, not just one. From what I saw in the sky, and heard, there were 3 surges. Almost everything I have is plugged into a surge protector.
The person who developed the Greenwater master complaint with the Utilities Commission is named Roger Kouchi. Ask for him.

[Jan Kobak]

Oops, forgot something.
I have had the contract crews that PSE uses for tree trimming(Asplund, in the past)trim up areas on my property that I deemed a risk. If it is within their right of way area, as it was on my property, they had a crew out within a week of my request-even though my area was not on their schedule to be trimmed for another year or two. They topped trees and also cut them completely down. You are responsible for the trees from the power pole back to your home.

[djt]

I took apart my ceiling fan controller yesterday. (It hasn't worked since the power surge.) I was amazed at the amount of burned circuitry and charring inside the box..........I think we were lucky that something didn't catch fire.

[djt]

I was just informed that......... after extensive research PSE has determined that they are not responsible for the power surge. It was a tree on Forest Service land that damaged the line and caused the surge. They suggested that I explore filing an insurance claim with my homeowners provider......isn't that special.

[Webmaster]

^^^^^That explains the intent of the message PSE left on my answering system. Thanks for saving me the time to reply to their message.

I guess it also answers the question of, “If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, will it not only screw up the electrical service for an entire community, but cause property damage as well?” :rolleyes:

[Webmaster]

PSE wrote me to say, in part that the cause of the electrical outage on 2-7-08 was due to a treetop that broke due to high winds, and was carried by the wind about 50 feet into a high-voltage distribution line. The tree tangled the lines which resulted in the power spike the area experienced.

If anyone would like a copy of this letter let me know and i'll scan it and send it by way of email.

[djt]

I got the phone call and letter also. The scenario sounds similar to initially what the state utilities commission said probably happened.

It seems odd that the rep from PSE that I initially contacted said that a power surge like that is extremely rare and they couldn't imagine how something like that could happen.......perhaps the state could have explained it to them!

Itfeels like I got a patronizing explanation, a pat on the head and sent on my way file a homeowner's insurance claim and pay my deductible.....