ALL VEHICLES on SR 410 MUST CARRY CHAINS!!!

[DeputyDan]

Just as a courtesy for the community.....I have a little reminder about carrying tire chains in your vehicles.

There are a couple signs (at least 3 if not 4) along 410 between Enumclaw and the turn to Crystal that say " ALL VEHICLES MUST CARRY CHAINS NOVEMBER 1-APRIL 1"

However we want to look at it - the law applies to ALL vehicles transiting SR 410, whether you are a Greenwater resident or not, whether you drive a front wheel drive car, all wheel drive or 4X4 truck, a SUV, whether you have "Mud and Snow Tires", or even if you have "50 years of driving in snow in Montana" experience.

The ticket for not carrying chains is a steep one - $538. Our troopers who work the area are citing for the violation if they come to an ice or snow related accident and the vehicle does not have chains in the vehicle. If you get stopped for a speeding offense or other traffic violation, you are going to get asked to produce/show your chains. If you don't have chains - you can get cited for not carrying them, or the additional offense might influence the issuance of an infraction on why you got stopped in the first place. The law does not say you have to use the chains unless specifically posted as such, but that each and every vehicle transiting 410 is equipped with a set to be used if necessary. I am following the same protocols as the WSP.

I drive an all wheel drive Subaru for the family, a 4 wheel drive truck for errands or chores, and for work a 4 wheel drive SUV - and at some point of time while driving every vehicle - I have encountered conditions where I had to chain up. So keep the troopers and WSDOT happy (and me) - equip your vehicle with chains and don't be afraid to use them!

Here are the references if you wish to read on the laws and see for yourself (for Revised Code of Washington references go to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw and for Washington Administrative Code references go to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac or simply google search "RCW" or "WAC"):
1. When a law refers to a Department or it's delegate - it refers to WSDOT or the WSP
2. The WSDOT has erected traffic control signs specifying the controlled area on SR 410 between Enumclaw and the closure at Mt. Rainier National Park [WAC code 204-24-050, Section 1 and 2(h)]
3. RCW 47.36.250 is the exact chapter used for enforcement of the "All Vehicles Carry Chains" or "Chains Required" restrictions.
4. RCW 47.36.250(1) and (3) use "Recommendations" or Requirement" language for the application
5. RCW 46.04.670 and RCW 46.61.050 are the additional statutory authority for enforcement of the sign as it applies to all vehicles, including passenger cars, SUV's, all wheel drive vehicles or 4X4 trucks
6. Failure to obey a requirement of these sections is the traffic infraction subject to a penalty of $538

[Webmaster]

Thanks for the fair warning. Uh, what is the logic behind the high fine? Historically, are there a lot of problems related to folks who don’t use chains in the area?

Also I'm a little confused. I don’t remember the exact wording but even when I've seen the “Chains Required” sign on CM Blvd, there is a posted conditional disclaimer which reads (and this is the part where I don’t remember the exact wording) except 4 wheel drive vehicles with approved traction tires. State Patrol officers have said to me on several different occasions that what my SUV has for tires is considered approved (the tires have the symbol of a mountain and a snow flake). So if that’s okay for CM blvd when chains are required, why the requirement to carry chains on SR 410?

Here's the symbol on the tires: http://www.explore-greenwater.com/pix/severe_snowflake[1].gif

[DeputyDan]

All vehicles are to have chains available to use when needed is the reason behind the statute. You would not believe how many times I have been chained up and have had to pull or dig out 4 wheel drive trucks and all-wheel drive vehicles out of a predicament. If everyone were smart....we would have great tires, would not drive fast on compact ice and snow, or would not drive into areas with steep slopes during periods of extremely bad conditions. However you look at it - we will always have the poorly prepared person with bad tires driving during periods of poor conditions placing themselves and everyone else in jeopardy. :eek:

The signs you are referring to covers the requirement to physically chain up - unless driving the special exempted vehicles (4 wheel drives etc). There are two sets of those signs that I am aware of - one by the viewpoint (milepost 48?) and one just before the turn to Crystal Mountain Boulevard. Exempted vehicles are not required to chain up when these signs are turned - however exempted vehicles are required to have one set of chains to use if necessary.

I know there are people whose elevated opinions of themselves or their vehicles will argue they would never chain up or have never had to chain up no matter how bad the conditions.....and if they were the only vehicle on the road I can see that maybe occurring. :p However capable we may be, we are all subject to abilities of the other 5000 vehicles out there skidding on the ice, causing traffic to stop where we would never stop on purpose, and get us stuck on glare ice on a steep slope that nothing short of chains will climb. :eek:

I am not sure of the theory behind the fine amount, however there are several infractions that carry that high rate, including not having proof of insurance, negligent driving, and this cite for not carrying chains. There is a minor ticket that can be written that has a bail amount of $101 - and that is for violation of "failure to obey a traffic control device".... i.e. the sign stating all vehicles have to carry chains.... which is a violation normally issued for failing to stop at a stop sign or a red light. That is an option that WSP says they would normally use if they were to cite for not carrying chains if you were NOT involved in an accident. I hope this answers your questions. :confused:

[DeputyDan]

And to answer your last question.....Crystal Mountain Boulevard is a joint county/USFS roadway....and 410 is a state highway. The requirement to carry chains is a state law covering specific enumerated state highways (SR 410 between Enumclaw and Naches is specifically cited in section (h) (iv) of WAC 204-24-050 Section 2)- but the mandatory carry-chains-in-the-vehicle requirement can be enforced on any roadway above the sign posting if it can be demonstrated the offending vehicle passed the requirement signs by transiting 410.

[Webmaster]

Thanks for the detailed response! Re the fine, it appears that in the determination of the legislature, not carrying chains is right up there with other acts of vehicular negligence. Given some of the self-inflicted accidents I've seen along sr 410 I cant really disagree with the fine.

But there appears to be a discontinuity to mandate carrying chains along sr 410 but state a specific exemption to using them provided the vehicle meets other criteria, on CM blvd.

[Webmaster]

bump

It's that time of year again

[Webmaster]

Bump. Keep those chains handy!

[Webmaster]

Bump. That time again!

[AlpineHideaway]

Where do studded tires fit in the whole senerio? :confused:

[Stretch]

Where do studded tires fit in the whole senerio?

They are legal from Nov. 1 to March 31.

Link - http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/studtire.htm

[AlpineHideaway]

Legal during a certain time of the year...yes, already know that. But as far as studded tires go, if they are on the vehicle, do you still need the chains?

Or is there some ancient obscure law that you need to carry chains and studded tires only on Fridays in even numbered years if you have one lazy right eye and are missing half of your big left toe and can carry 8 half dollar coins in your navel.

[Webmaster]

> do you still need the chains?

Need them? Probably not. Be required to carry them? Afaik, yes.

[Stretch]

Yep, still must carry them even if you don't use them. The only time you would probably get a ticket would be if you were in an accident where chains might have kept you safer. I don't know if the police ask if you have chains if you get pulled over for something else...

Here is more info off the WSDOT site:

I have studded tires and occasionally drive through the passes. Since I have studded tires, do I also need chains when chains are required?

When chains are required, studded tires alone will not meet the chain requirement unless your vehicle is a four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicle. Please remember, under extreme weather circumstances, the Washington State Patrol (WSP) can mandate that all vehicles chain up, including studded tire vehicles and four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles. WSDOT posts signs to keep motorists informed of chain requirements.


Do I need to carry chains when traveling through the pass?

Passenger vehicles are not required to carry tire chains but WSDOT recommends all drivers carry chains. Should weather/road conditions worsen, WSP and WSDOT may require chains on all vehicles. If this restriction is in effect, all vehicles without them will be turned back or cited by the WSP. Commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) are required to carry chains on most mountain passes in Washington State. For more information on the chain requirements for commercial vehicles, visit: www.wsdot.wa.gov/commercialvehicle/chain_req.htm.


Can you explain “Chains Required”?

When WSDOT posts “Chains Required” on its highway information signs, it is unlawful for any vehicle to enter the controlled area without having chains on its drive tires. There is an exemption for four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles, provided tire chains are available for at least one set of drive tires.


I have a four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicle. Do I have to install chains when signs indicate that chains are required?

As long as your vehicle is equipped with traction tires, chain installation is generally not required on four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles. Under extreme weather conditions, the Washington State Patrol (WSP) can mandate that all vehicles chain up, including four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles. WSDOT posts signs to keep motorists informed of chain requirements.

Hope this helps!

[javet]

Thanks for the info. We have and all wheel drive vehicle and a 2wd/4wd SUV(truck). We would fit into the "rare-use" category. Is there a buying/usage guide out there somehwere?

What retailers local or online do you recommend?
What type of chains?
For all wheel drive, Front or rear?
For part time 4WD (trucks) Front or rear?

I can see why the fine is so high because one can spend a hefty amount on chains depending on the type and the size of your wheels/tires.
Thanks.

[Stretch]

Honestly, I'd go to Les Schwab and get a set there. If you don't use them during the season, you can return them for a full refund.

If anything, write your tire size down and google 'Snow Chains' and something should come up.

Here is a link: http://www.tirechain.com/?gclid=CLyCmOH1iJ4CFQgtawodBiBjtQ

another:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=tire+chains&x=0&y=0&psid=15662832&sid=ISx20070515x00001a&OVMTC=Broad&site=&creative=4421340445&OVKEY=tire%20chains

and another:

http://www.tirechainsupply.com/?gclid=CO-2v4H2iJ4CFSReagodsS4NtQ

These sites should get you started.